Ms. Garrett, I commend you for exuberant patience and keen insight during the 75 comments of your letter to the Editor. S&S has dropped a lot of names and has trafficed in venomous attacks. In essence,S&S, aka STEVIE M., is a sore loser. I hate to burst his bubble that he may have posessed some sense of ethics, and withdrew his vulgar and prurient comment about "spreading legs" and "showing a##". His article was removed by the Rome News Tribune for abusive language. Mission Accomplished, Ms. Garrett. Well done, Faithful Servant of Christ.

Ms. Garrett, Your poignant point to S&S is well taken. He wins the 'game of name-dropping' but miserably fails in making sense and in rational thought. Somewhere in his name-dropping comments here, S&S mentions a half million dollar check to GBC for the Shorter Property. It is only appropriate that he come up with the first $10,000, since he has a truly Compelling Interest in this case; but don't hold your breath. When S&S stops the name-calling-dropping, "It is Finished."

To the "Know It All" S&S

First of all "Savedandsanctified" there is at least one thing you DO NOT KNOW! It is very presumptuous of you to think you know what knowledge I have. Has it ever occurred to you that someone else has made informed decisions on their own without your guidance?

It takes a lot of audacity on your part to assume you know everything and continue to regurgitate your list of must reading. Aren't you tire of it? I think everyone else is!

Not only have you commandeered this comment section, but you continue to spew your hatred on others. It has reached a nauseating level!

Let me repeat what I wrote to you earlier in this thread.

Savedandsantified

Thankfully, I do not have to justify any of these men. That's something only God can do through the shed blood of His One and Only Son, Jesus Christ.

My salvation and hope is built on Jesus Christ and He alone. The Word of God tells me everything I need to know.

philmaco:

Here is a link to the essay by the Duke Proff on Criswell, the man who made Dowles and Price and their ascendancy in the SBC possible.

As a New Yorker article by Jill Lepore on Planned Parenthood shouts out, now that race is no longer palatable, Price and his minions now use the social issues and in SBC precincts "Inerrancy" as their wedge issue of choice to gain power and rape liberal arts institutions.

Copy and paste and confront Dowles and Price with this article and Jill Lepore as well

http://jsr.fsu.edu/Volume10/Freeman.pdf

Ms. Garrett, Certainly, your word to the name-dropping SSS(semisavedsanctified) is of Stellar Truth and Integrity. Your words stand as solid symbols of the Death Knell for the whining and losing Liberals. You said, "We are not called to justify any man"; and St. Paul would agree. Only God in his Grace can do that with us (including SSS). As we close the door on this discussion with their fading and whimpering cry of "UnFair" and "Occupy Shorter", it brings echoes of William Cullen Byrant's great Opus, "Thanatopsis". (View of Death.) He wrote, "So live, that when thy summons come to join that innumerable caravan to the silent halls of death; go not as the quarry slave at night scourged to his dungeon;... but approach thy grave as one who wraps the drapery of his couch about him and lies down to pleasant dreams"... Sweet dreams, Losers all.

As the inimitable and effervescent, ubiquitous Savedandsanctified,(aka persona non gratis name-dropping Steve of Collinsville) drops the name of John Lanier below; permit me to drop the name of Sidney Lanier, the Poet Laureate of Georgia. Dr. Roy McClean, who preceded Charles Stanley @ FBC Atlanta quoted Lanier like this, " As the Marsh Hen builds her nest on the watery sod, I will build my nest on the Greatness of God." Could it be that the New Shorter is doing the same thing? With a disturbing cacophony of bellicose voices "Occupying" our relativistic society,One Absolute Voice rings clear; "This is my Beloved Son, listen to Him."(a Carlyle Marney paraphrase.) No more "cheap religion" as Bonhoeffer calls it."No convenience without conviction," "No pardon without pentitence," "No Sanctification without Submission" to God's Holy Will and Word !!

Ms. Garrett, you are adeptly articulate in your expressions of your position. All The discordant notes are coming from the whining losers. Dr. Dowless stated in his inaugural message with the OCCUPY SHORTER protestors close by, "Shorter is a Christian School." 'Nuff said. Let us move INTO THE FUTURE with confidence in God's Grace that Shorter will continue to excel in Spiritual, Academic, Social and Athletic, components. As Prime Minister Thatcher said to President George H.W. Bush, "This is not a time to waffle, George." Dr. Dowless' stand is much like Martin Luther's stand in Worms, Germany in 1521, "Here I stand. My conscience is captive to the WORD OF GOD."

Carol, forgive me for asking but you said that don’t agree with every part of it, I don’t want to put you in a position you don’t want to be in so please feel free to not answer or omit what you are not comfortable with.

I have in the past on other posts made suggestions to how Shorter could have worded the document better basically it allows communion wine, and takes away the absolutes on marriage and instead changes them to “promote a traditional marriage”. I also give the staff and employees working there ample time and funding to get out and find another job by suggesting they can work the rest of this academic year as well as all the next then the year following Shorter will help out with the payments for those having problems selling their houses in this stagnate economy. My question to you is, would these changes be viewed as acceptable by you and perhaps if you feel others, who are supporting this move, might have liked them as well? Was there something else like a suggestion you would want to make?

I cannot believe the firestorm that my letter to the editor at Rome News Tribune has caused online. The newspaper assigned the title which seems to have been taken as an "in your face" statement by those who are extremely upset about the new "Faith Statement" required for faculty and staff. While I stand by everything I wrote, that title created a tone I did not intend. Nowhere in my letter did I actually say I was "thankful" that Shorter had returned to it's Baptist roots. While I do think it is only right for a Christian school to promote Christian values, my letter was simply to express the absolute present fact that Shorter is a Georgia Baptist Convention university, and the GBC has every right to promote the Christian values of their core beliefs even if I don't agree with every single part of it.

Well then congratulations, you took a “scientific” course at Shorter in the mid 50s so now you can scientifically discriminate. I don’t recall asking about Shorter’s standing with the GBC so if I did sorry I did not realize it. Though it does not matter what group name you label it under, is it fair or even Christian to discriminate against your fellow man? I could have sworn the words “cast the first stone” were not a typo in my Bible; then again, perhaps it was compared to what Dowless and the GBC say.

Not to mention that you are talking Baptist here and having a Baptist school. I don’t know if you noticed there are a lot of Baptist churches around here and its not because there is an overflow at any main one but since the people have a differing of opinions one group will go out and start a new church. That being said the GBC via their puppets Dowless and Price are laying out guidelines that would not make it in a lot of Baptist churches and telling the teachers and staff to suck it up or lose their jobs. Is that a Christian thing to do? I give you all these differing examples but I guess you don’t see them or just don’t care.

Perhaps you are too old and narrow minded to give a rip about anyone but yourself and those who reflect only what YOU believe. Notice I am not Baptist and with the exception of a belief in Jesus I don’t even fall into the Christian category yet I am over here trying to help other Christians in a Christian way. I have even made suggestions on other posts as to how Shorter could have done the same thing without making so many enemies and threatening so many people. Where are YOU in trying to help or are you just going to rubber stamp it as okay and move on?

I would hope as an educated person that you could take a little time and see an expanded view of whats going on here. See not only the effect its having on the teachers and staff but all so their families, the alumni, and the community. I am asking you to see that there are better ways of getting the same thing done without the threats and without the labeling that Dowless and the GBC have pushed down.

I must agree with Savedandsanctified that the absoluteness of the document needs to be looked at. What if you get someone who is divorced and it was because of an abusive and possibly life threatening relationship? What if in the future as science progresses that the homosexual thing does turn out to be genetic? I know I have told you that one before but the thing about science is its always changing, I don’t know if you remember the basics of what a theory is but they stand to until disproven. Basically what if you are wrong and all this hate the sin stuff if misguided? The world is not black and white as you might want it to be and as an educated person, an educational institution, and a so called Christian group, I and others expect better.

Carol Garrett, the author of the letter we are discussing(?) makes two simple points: "Shorter evolved into an institution that strayed away from its Georgia Baptist mission and purpose." That is an opinion. "In 2005 the court ruled that GBC had full controlling interest of Shorter." That is a fact ! Any questions? In regards to guestwsx' homily on homosexuality, the position of the American Psychiatric Society was, "Homosexuality is aberrant and deviant behavior." With the successful political action of the radical homosexual agenda, it is now considered an 'alternative life style." Just ask Barney Frank. The so-called scientific study of the enlarged hypothalmus found in gay autopies was a flawed study. All of the cadavers examined had died of AIDS. What was cause, what was effect here? In the mid fifties I took a science/lab course during summer school @ Shorter. I may well have been the first male coed registered at Shorter. It was a great course. There was no mention of Evolution or Gen. 1-11. We dissected frogs and studied biology. I made an A in the course, and it transferred over to my beloved Carson-Newman for my senior year, and it greatly enhanced my GPA score. Maybe Tim Tebow, after setting more NFL records with the Broncos, can come to Shorter and be football coach for the Hawks. Then, with Nelson Price as their team Chaplain; they might become the soaring SHORTER EAGLES.

@ Shortyfox

I was not name calling as you suggest merely pointing out the KKK has the same rights that Shorter has, perhaps the Black Panthers would have been a better example for you then. Also despite the impression you seem to be working under I am NOT a liberal. I also have no ministry that I am trying to push onto people. While I share some of the Christian beliefs I would not be so quick to label myself as one. Throughout history Christians have killed others often unprovoked and without warning in the name of God.

I am against bullies wherever they maybe, while I don’t personally agree with homosexuality for me, I don’t think it is my place to judge them nor was I put on earth to punish any sin (that might make me God). I happen to know a few homosexual people and to me they seem like very nice people and the ones I know show far more of the “Christian” values then your Dowless and Price have done. Perhaps you should meet some of them and see for yourself or are you without sin?

But this is more then the narrow minded personal views suggested of you and pointed to by myself above, this is about a group who took over a Christian institution of higher education, narrowed its teachings to only what the leaders personally believe, discriminated against those who for whatever reason could not live up to their ideas (homosexuals and divorcees), left the teachers to make a difficult decision that could put their families out on the streets, created an environment where hate crimes could flourish, and lastly did it all in the absolute name of God.

Is this what your ministry is about? It has been talked about on the news that homosexuality is a genetic disorder, if that were proven to be true, where does that place you in your treatment of them? Are you really no better then the Christians whom I mentioned before? As far as I can tell you have a lot of name calling and labeling going on with your posts, perhaps with this new knowledge you might have some better names and labels to go along with your new post. I look forward to seeing you walk on water soon in an upcoming issue of the RNT. Remember to smile big for the camera!!!!!

Love,

WSX

PERMIT ME ANOTHER "MEDIOCRE EXPRESSION." OH EXCOMMUNICATED SANCTIFIED ONE. From Dietrich Bonhoeffer: "When Jesus Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die." Bonhoeffer followed Jesus; and on April 9, 1945, (2 weeks before the Allied Liberation) in Concentration Camp Flossenburg in Eastern Bavaria, Bohhoeffer died. Executed by the Nazis. A few years ago a book was written, "A Hill on which to Die." It ties in with Martin Luther's stand as he stood against Archbishop Eck in Worms, Germany in 1521. In his memorable "HERE I STAND" speech, Luther's words ring out today, "Hier stehe Ich. Ich kann nicht anders. Gott hilfe mir. AMEN." Let President Dowless stand before all of your name-dropped Archbishops, and as the great U.S. Senate Chaplain Peter Marshall prayed, "Damn their treacherous flatteries without winking." Amen

My, oh My. 'Unsaved and Unsanctified' and all the other liberals have vacated all logic now and moved into the nebulous realm of ad Hominem with words like "Jon Birch" and "KKK" and "Rascals" and ad infinitum and ad nauseum. Let's all, conservatives and liberals alike, drop the name calling, name-dropping and ad hominems, to get on with the work God has called us to do in our separate and respective ministries. As Luther and Zwingli, the great reformers agreed to go on in the work of Reformation, let Godsey and Nelson Price do the same in Christian education. John Wesley and the great George Whitfield never agreed about Sovereignty and Free Will; but BOTH preached the Gospel with enthusuastic fervor. There is WORK for us all. May the Shorter Faculty and trustees work in Harmony, and may the Mercer Faculty and Trustees work in Harmony. "Hear our Prayer, Oh Lord."; and also "Lord, let the Light on Shorter Hill continue to shine forth and send out a beacon of Hope and Love."

It cannot be said anybetter than this, the fiasco now taking place at Shorter. Shine this Harvard Press Book on the Trustees and the Georgia Baptist Convention and run the rascals off The Hill; at least out of administration and replace them with folks who know something about liberal arts education, and then invite the best and brightest students to come and drink from Wisdom's fountain pure, and show their children, the bright lights from their churches and Sunday Schools something noble and do it with Hospitality and grace.

Educate the children; but don't put the Absolute certaintarians in charge of an institution of higher education.

It defeats the purpose.

Here consider this; and maybe review the end of There Will Be Blood to see what bad can come to annointed ones in the wrong setting (the milkshake analogy):

American evangelicalism often appears as a politically monolithic, textbook red-state fundamentalism that elected George W. Bush, opposes gay marriage, abortion, and evolution, and promotes apathy about global warming. Prominent public figures hold forth on these topics, speaking with great authority for millions of followers. Authors Stephens and Giberson, with roots in the evangelical tradition, argue that this popular impression understates the diversity within evangelicalism—an often insular world where serious disagreements are invisible to secular and religiously liberal media consumers. Yet, in the face of this diversity, why do so many people follow leaders with dubious credentials when they have other options? Why do tens of millions of Americans prefer to get their science from Ken Ham, founder of the creationist Answers in Genesis, who has no scientific expertise, rather than from his fellow evangelical Francis Collins, current Director of the National Institutes of Health?

Exploring intellectual authority within evangelicalism, the authors reveal how America’s populist ideals, anti-intellectualism, and religious free market, along with the concept of anointing—being chosen by God to speak for him like the biblical prophets—established a conservative evangelical leadership isolated from the world of secular arts and sciences.

Today, charismatic and media-savvy creationists, historians, psychologists, and biblical exegetes continue to receive more funding and airtime than their more qualified counterparts. Though a growing minority of evangelicals engage with contemporary scholarship, the community’s authority structure still encourages the “anointed” to assume positions of leadership.

End quote, the Harvard Press review of Giberson and and Stephens The Anointed.

Aaron Weaver is a PHD candidate at the Baptist affiliated school Baylor in Texas and a Grad of UGA.

Aaron is the author of a biography of James Dunn, a grand Baptist who led the Baptist Joint Committee in the days of the fundamentalist assault on traditional Baptist views of the separation of church and State, the view whose origins are in George W. Truett, birthplace in Hayesville, North Carolina.

In fact Weaver reviewed a recent biography of Truett, Thy Will Be Done, by Keith Durso.

Truett many say was the greatest Baptist in the first half of the 20th Century. He waspastor of FBC Dallas before the W.A. Criswell regime made it a cabal for the Hunt Brothers and the Birch Society. Google Curtis Freeman of Duke, Curtis online piece about Criswell's race baiting speech to a joint session of the S.C. legislature in 1956 and Stewart Newman's resistance to his evil.

Pardon my long intro to Aaron Weaver's world but here is his insight into what Shorter can expect from Dowles and Price as posted this morning in the SBC Trends Forum of baptistlife.com.

You can also follow Weaver's weekly review of Baptist news at the blogs of baptiststoday.org whose editor John Pierce is a Berry grad.

Weaver on Shorter's Future:

That may be how it is "seen" but that's not reality. I can only speak to Brewton-Parker College but I suspect the same is true of sister school Shorter.

Conservatives never backed BPC. They never sent their kids to BPC. BPC cleaned house some years back, replacing all the professors including my dad in the Christianity department. The Bob White fundamentalists seized complete control.

The school is barely alive. Conservatives have not sent their kids to BPC. The Georgia Baptist Convention helps fund BPC but conservative Georgia Baptist leaders have never made a commitment to the school at any point. Enrollment has always been an issue for 20 years now.

I've noticed how GBC leaders are puffing up Truett McConnell. The school is hiring and adding degree programs. It's really hard to believe TMC's success is real. Who would be surprised if we one day find out that Emir Caner has fabricated TMC's success much like his brother Ergun fabricated his lifestory?

@ shortyfox, Grad2468, and Carol Garrett

I feel that you are missing a few big points here, 1st was that there was a better way of getting the exact same thing done without so much controversy. The 2nd is that the people you are claiming victory over are not actually your enemies but your own supporters, they ARE fellow Christians. The 3rd is just because you can does that make it right?

Legally the KKK has the right to march in public because they are a private organization they can discriminate against others who don’t match their points of view (the KKK claims to be Christian too) and can do the same things Shorter has done if they want to. The flip side to this is does that make them right? Now Im not saying that Shorter has been taken over by the KKK or anything (yet) so don’t go and get all snippy about it but you are missing the point. Is it right to persecute other Christians and even other Baptist just because they might have some small problem with what Dowless and the GBC is doing? What if its over something as simple and traditional as real wine at communion?

I guess you think you are fighting some imagined evil out there when it simply boils down to Shorter was a Christian liberal arts school and the teachers and staff who went to work there knew it and probably agreed to the teachings. I have not seen anything from staff in the RNT saying hey the Satanist club at Shorter is holding a human sacrifice on such and such date and welcoming pagans (I know a lot of pagan traditions forbid sacrifice its just an example) in the community to come out and join them. These are people of Christian moral fibers to begin with that you are attacking and throwing out on the streets. Then you waive your Christian flag of victory like you won something or personally fought evil.

You ask where’s the beef? I would like for you to take a moment and put yourself in the shoes of a college professor who has made a home in Rome, with a family, house payments, car payments, and other things. Then I would welcome you to the reality that there are not really any jobs around the area (meaning outside of Rome and probably the south east). Can you really afford to lose your job, try to sell your home in a failing market, and move to a place where you might have a better chance of making it?

This is ignoring the other problems like the fact Shorter is targeting people like homosexuals, divorcees, good people in general, other Christians, and other Baptist interpretations of the Bible (always a favorite of mine because I seem to ask pastors questions they cant seem to answer).

As Ms. Garrett so articulately states, "Shorter College is a Georgia Baptist College." Therefore, Nelson Price and his fellow Trustees of Shorter have every right and obligation to align The policies at Shorter with traditional Southern Baptist Beliefs and traditions. The Notre Dame and Liberty Baptist University Trustees exercise the same freedom. In Shorter's case, the Georgia Supreme Court has ruled and the case is closed. Thank God for freedom. Freedom to dissent and freedom to act in accordance with historical principles and convictions. Patrick Henry: "Give me liberty, or give me death." So, there on Shorter Hill, it will be as G.K. Chesterton said, "Sunrise is a never ending Glory, Getting out of bed is a never-ending nuisance!" Since Georgia Bapists are 'Split' now; isn't it fair for the liberals to have Mercer and the conservatives have Shorter? Where's the Beef? It is not at Truett Cathy's Chic Fil-A, although he supports conservative Christian Values.

@ Savedandsanctified

I appreciate your enthusiasm and your extensive knowledge of works on the subject at hand. However I would like to suggest that you might be a bit ahead of the game with the references you are making as I don’t know how many people get them.

Furthermore in the event that Dowless and those who are in charge of implementing such policies are wise enough to keep tabs on what those opposed to their position are saying it might not be a bad idea to simplify your ideas. I don’t believe they are wise enough to try and work on something that would be taken by the public as well and the teachers and staff a bit better like changing the wording and giving the employees who will be leaving a care package to help them through the financial burdens. Then again it is has been said that Shorter has hired a PR firm to help them.

I think for a lot of people the point is that Dowless and the GBC are taking a school once highly regarded Christian liberal arts school and giving an image that IS unsavory to a lot of people of varying faiths or no faith. To add to this they have struck out at those whom severed them (teachers and staff). There was a better way of getting to the same ends at Shorter and Dowless and the GBC took the low road on this and looked to pick a fight without worrying if they were picking a fight with a fellow Baptist or anyone else.

Dr. Dowless and the GBC want to have their stringent school and for most people who would really care? But here is where the fight comes in, they could have worded the document to say things like “traditional marriage” instead of targeting homosexuals. They could have made a clause about things like holy communion being approved and they could have given the teachers and staff not only adequate heads up but offered finical help for those who could not continue as a testimony of good will towards others in this transition and taking into account the obvious burden this will be on those people and their families. Its not like these teachers and staff are out practicing human sacrifice, or are child molesters, or something of the sort. These are good, decent people they deserver better then what they are getting.

I personally don’t agree with Dowless or the GBC on this and feel if it must happen then this group of people had two pools to draw on for bring about such a change and they chose NOT to use either. The two groups would have been A.) Showing love and compassion for those who will be suffering from the loss of a job at the school and B.) using language that would have don’t the same job without being such a hot topic button.

Instead of trying for a better way we read about how other Christians are jumping up and down waving a flag of victory because they are slaying fellow Christians who don’t happen to believe the exact same as them. Its almost like watching the US Army fight the US Air Force trying to vanquish each other in the name of American safety.