LETTER TO THE EDITOR: Be concerned for rights of unborn
by JOSEPH B. GESING, Silver Creek
Jun 21, 2012 | 1957 views | 27 27 comments | 5 5 recommendations | email to a friend | print
ONE OF THE SLOGANS of the pro-abortion movement is “Shouldn’t women be able to control their own bodies?”

The assumption behind this statement is that the unborn child is a part of the woman’s body. Now this presumption may be understand in three ways.

First, the fetus or unborn child relies on the mother completely for its existence. This is understood to mean the mother has the “right” to dispose of her baby. However, this dependence on the mother for all its needs or else it would die can also be said of a newborn baby, if not cared for.

Does this mean that a newborn baby can be neglected or killed outright? Many pro-abortionist think so especially when it comes to handicapped children. They say a newborn baby must pass certain tests to prove its humanity and if it fails these tests then it forfeits its right to life.

Second, the unborn child is inside the mother. This assertion, they say, means that the unborn child is therefore a part of the mother’s body. However, being inside something does not necessarily mean the object is part of the thing, like a person being inside a car or a building.

The argument may be extended to say that the unborn child inside the mother depends on her completely and therefore is part of her body. A counter argument may be made of an analogous situation involving astronauts in space. They too total depend upon their spaceship for everything —air, food watered. It they exit the vehicle unprotected they would die quickly. The same holds true for a nonviable unborn baby.

Yet we don’t think of the astronauts as only a component of their space vehicle and therefore disposable.

Third, the unborn child is a parasite. This argument is used to dehumanize the unborn child, describing it as a harmful intruder sucking blood and life force from its host, the mother. Thus any guilt the mother may feel for killing her baby is mitigated.

However, to call the unborn child a parasite is to acknowledge its separate nature because a parasite is never part of the host’s body but is biologically a separate and distinct organism.

Here are some facts that further show that the unborn baby is not part of the mother’s body. A mother is always female but she can conceive a male child so she cannot be both male and female. The mother and child may have different blood types. The baby can be in part a different race from the mother. The chromosomal characteristic of the cells in the baby’s body are different from the cells in the mother’s body.

The baby can die without the mother dying. And the mother can die without the baby dying if he is viable. In birthing the baby leaves the mother’s body. What other bodily organ of the mother does that?

A woman does have the right to control her own body. However once she conceives and has procreated she does not have the right to destroy another person’s body.

Comments
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rhuidean07
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July 03, 2012
Dude,

You have really gotten your panties in a wad because others disagree with you.

If you have ANY scientific data that supports the letter writers conclusions then please oh please present them.

You run around whining about civility and such but you are the first to sling verbal barbs.

Typical right winger...Betcha you loves you some Tea Partiers

Are you really so sensitive? Are you really so shaky about your beliefs that you cannot defend them with facts?

Abortion is a matter for two people...Women and their doctors...

No one else.

If you believe differently then man up and explain why....

Just be aware that "Jesus says so" is a losing argument.

Rhuidean

rhuidean07
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June 28, 2012
Rosebush,

I completely agree with your assesment and will cease and desist.

Rhuidean
Rosebush
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June 28, 2012
Rhuidean, Crawfish, it is evident the two of you cannot agree on anything and have a very low opinion of each other. My question is why do you both continue to comment in answer to the other in what has become a name-calling event? It’s just not informative or even entertaining anymore.
rhuidean07
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June 28, 2012


Crawfish.Creek,

You Wrote:

You're not a woman either Rhuidean or mayby you just think like one hanging around all those limp wrists. I think we know what a left wing loon you are so why keep on posting your idiocy here?

I reply: No I am not a woman....However I do have a wife three daughters and one granddaughter.

I am arguing for their freedom to control the most basic of things.....Their bodies...

You continue to believe this argument is between you and I.

It's not this argument is about freedom of choice.

You and yours want to take that away from all women...my family included..

And no………… that is never going to be allowed...

I post here because I have the same first amendment right as you and care not if you agree.

And yes I know what a red neck, bigoted, buffoon you are. So what.

Rhuidean

rhuidean07
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June 27, 2012
Cranky2u,

I stand by my earlier comments.

Abortion is a legal medical procedure. You ramble on about killing babies weeks from their due date.

You act like the practice is common and roving squads of hacks are touring the US. What delusional gibberish.

I see I am never going to influence your opinion...

Thats OK...Women all over America have just about had enough of men involving themselves in their business.

I think a backlash is coming...But time will tell.

I stand by my statement that education , counseling and access to contraception will go a long way to reducing unwanted pregnancies and lower abortion rates.

I also advocate women have total control of their bodies and have access to abortion.

i really do not understand your belief that you have a say in a women's health matters.

Dude you are not a women and you're certainly not their master.....

Hubris and Misogyny is all you got.

Rhuidean
ohmy!
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June 30, 2012
limp wrists? you are without a doubt one of the most hateful posters on this board! you mr crawfish are the pot calling the kettle black. you and crank use deragatory terms every chance you get, you both blamed Mip and voter and managed to get them banned but you two are just as bad if not worse, ( MUCH WORSE in my opinion)!! I agree with rosebush on this and Rhuidean your better than them! do not stoop to their level.
ohmy!
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June 30, 2012
maybe you should look at old posts and see how often I posted and you will clearly see that I have been and only will be OHMY!you are so ridiculous, do you really think you know me? you don't have a clue, I am half voters age and clearly female. I don't always agree with voter and mip but I do respect their right to have differing opinions than the mainstream Romans. I actually learned to think outside the box, to educate myself and not allow others to dictate what I think and feel. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but you are not entitled to single out groups of people to spread hate. Free speech is one thing, racist and biggoted comments hating on people groups is quite another.
rhuidean07
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June 27, 2012
Cranky2u,

You Wrote:

There are NUMEROUS cases of so-called "doctors" overstepping their boundaries and doing the "unthinkable" with late term third trimester abortions, performing them on infants who are, say, 35 WEEKS INTO DEVELOPMENT. Numerous cases of the delivered infant being killed by having their spinal column severed AFTER the delivery. Pretty cold and callous, to say the least.

I reply: Yes you found 4 quacks who broke the law. I did read the article and the aborted fetuses ranged from 21 weeks to 35 weeks.

My argument is still the same...If desperate mothers had control of their bodies and could make decisions without subjecting themselves to quackery then the problem would go away.

The straw man argument you are trying to construct allows you to believe only one solution is available.

Well it's not.

Provide women with education, counseling and contraception and the unwanted pregnancy rates decline.....Provide women safe access to abortion and the need to find incompetent butchers goes away.

But no....Only Abstinence is taught in school...Women are told to " Put an aspirin between their knees"

Women are told they must submit to forced ultrasounds and in some states ultrasonic rape.

So I acknowledge the doctors you linked to are reprehensible.

I argue that by limiting women’s choices the "Pro Life" supporters are causing the very thing they rail against.

My position is constant...Women are the single arbiter of their bodies...The sooner we stop the misogyny the better.

Rhuidean

rhuidean07
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June 27, 2012
Crawfish.Creek,

Spare me the platitudes about my being rude.

You Wrote in a recent debate.

Your lack of social skills and lack of morals precedes you. Being gay and all like almost a whole 2 percent of the population tells us what a freak show you are in real life along with your idiotic attacks on little old ladies and anyone else that writes a letter to the rome news, including the author of the above letter to the editor.

I rely: Lets see...In that one paragraph you describe me a lacking morals, picking on little old ladies and maintain I am part of a demographic you think should be discriminated against. You all are happy to dish it out but….

The only reason for proclaiming your hurt feelings is because you, Cranky2U and the reset are losing the argument.

If you could provide facts as the need for women to give up control of their bodies you would gladly offer it up. Problem is you cannot…

The positions of the Pro-Lifers are perverse.

Reread Joesph's letter if you doubt it.

If you want to prove my opinion wrong then go ahead....

I am waiting.....

Rhuidean

rhuidean07
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June 27, 2012
Cranky2u,

I visited your link...Yeah they broke the law and will be punished...Your Point?

If you use these few incidences to argue that every woman in America should lose control of her body the moment she conceives then your argument is ludicrous.

To suggest that there is no religious element to the abortion insanity is completely inaccurate.

You and all the others freaking out have one thing in common.

You’re not a woman..It's not your job to be the birth police.

Crawfish.Creek,

All you right wingers talk about is banning anyone who disagrees with you....

WOW...Are you really so insecure in your beliefs?

Joe McCarthy would be proud of you all.

Rhuidean

Watchingit
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June 27, 2012
Crawfish - I repeat what I have said before - the best thing to do is not answer any of rhuidean’s postings. Just gives him an excuse to post again and he never says anything new. Just the same old stuff rehashed from other liberal blog postings. Not half as clever as he wants everyone to believe.
auldskoolvahl
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June 26, 2012
Bleh!
rhuidean07
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June 26, 2012
Cranky2u,

I ask questions that are provocative for a reason.

None of you EVER...EVER answer my queries as to where you obtain the moral authority to control women's reproductive choices.

No you all rant about what a meanie i am.

Do you REALLY think i care if you perceive me as abrasive?

Pro Lifers in Kansas convinced the idiot legislature to pass a law requiring women whose fetus is untenable to carry it to term and be born.

It's totally OK that these tragic children die moments after birth cause they got to be born. No concern whatever for the heartbreak of the mom and dad. Forced Birther's they are called.

In state legislatures throughout the country the rights of women are being attacked with the aim of taking the country back 100 years.

You remain silent when I remind you that "Pro Lifers" Kill and bomb.

All us pro choicer's do is tell you how perverse your beliefs are.

Yeah.....Thats totally the same....

Rhuidean
rhuidean07
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June 26, 2012
cranky2u and auldskoolvahl,

Is shouting names at me doing your blood pressure any good? Sure hope so...

No as to the facts...I believe that only a woman has control of her body. Her doctor advises her but she is the ultimate decider.

You blather on but ignore facts...

Abortion is a tragic event and anyone who does not think each and every woman anguishes over the decision is a fool.

Neither of you answer my questions regarding which side of this debate has acted in a violent and murderous way...

That's because only the "Pro Lifers" have bombed and killed.

So spare me your indignation....

I have asked numerous times where do you get your moral authority? Never once has anyone provided an answer.

Enquiring minds want to know....

Who made you all king of the uteruses?

Rhuidean

auldskoolvahl
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June 25, 2012
Bleh!!!

Which one are you, Voter or Mipoco?

In my opinion killing any human life intentionally, is beyond ignorance, it's evil.

You're implying only right-leaning people kill others. I don't keep statistics, I know the difference between good and evil.

Bleh! Bleh! Bleh!
rhuidean07
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June 25, 2012
Cranky2u,

You Wrote: rhuidean07 supports mother's right to kill a healthy baby just a few days before delivery? You're either a cold-hearted creep or else a complete idiot.

I reply: Where exactly did I espouse that position?

My position is really simple....The only people who get to make a decision about abortion are the mother and her doctor. EVER......

Name one single doctor who would abort a healthy near term fetus.

Your hyperbole is typical pro life BS...

You know that intellectually your position is untenable so you make wild claims and hope no one notices your clueless.

Moron.....

Rhuidean

rhuidean07
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June 25, 2012
Cranky2u,

I completely disagree. Women should be the ONLY ones with control of their bodies....Ever.

All the rhetoric about at what age a fetus is viable is just smoke and mirrors those on the right uses to justify their intrusions.

It's really not about "Saving the Unborn" It about power...If all those pro-life types really cared about children they would spend money educating young girls on contraception, Safe Sex and how to prevent unwanted pregnancy...

But no...Those same holy rollers proclaim that Abstinence Only" is the approved method of instruction...

It's ludicrous.....And insulting to women.

auldskoolvahl,

You Wrote: And, a 30 week old fetus still in the womb has no right to live, but a baby that is delivered at 25 weeks gestation for it and its mother's health does. No logic there for you hyper-aggressive

I reply: I agree this is illogical and the situation only exists because right wing nut-job politicians take their orders from right wing religious loons.

Women....Certainly women in need had nothing to do with those silly equivocations.

No...That all came from those without a uterus.

Hyper Aggressive Leftist? Are you really serious?

Can you be that self-unaware?

Please name one instance of a pro-choice advocate killing those with a differing viewpoint..

On the other so called "Pro-Lifers" have stalked and killed. Every hear of Doctor George Tiller?

Bombed clinics...Eric Rudolph?

So in my opinion to equate harsh words with those fringe wackaloons who do murder is beyond ignorance...

Just Saying..

Rhuidean

auldskoolvahl
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June 25, 2012
So....rights begin when a baby breaches its mother's vagina or abdomen but don't exist when it's hidden from your view? Wow! What other screwed up logic can you throw out?

And, we're to supposed that seeing is believing.

And, a 30 week old fetus still in the womb has no right to live, but a baby that is delivered at 25 weeks gestation for it and its mother's health does. No logic there for you hyper-aggressive leftists.

rhuidean07
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June 23, 2012
Tedb3rd,

I like your adoption idea and think it is a good proposal. However it would require the anti abortion types to step up and do something besides demonizing women.

I seriously do not think that is gonna happen.

Also i firmly support anyone who wants to abstain...

But i also support all woman's access to contraception.

More reproductive education would greatly reduce the need for abortions.

Women should be the only ones with any say over their bodies.

Rhuidean
tedb3rd
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June 22, 2012
My opinion is, if you have not adopted any babies, then you have no right to argue for (or against) abortion. If you're so 'anti-abortion' then go do something to help solve the problem: ADOPT. If you're not in the position to have or want a baby, then ABSTAIN. If we spent as much time/effort into encouraging people to do ONE of THOSE two options, then the moral-argument about abortion would not be issue.
ohmy!
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June 25, 2012
I agree 100% well said! Very well said!!
mirage83
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June 21, 2012
Mr. Gesing,

You have the right to make such decisions and determinations for yourself, but do not have the right to do so for others. And since you're male and will never have to face the possibility of such decisions yourself it's pretty presumptuous for you to make such declarations at all.

And your tactic of referring to those who are pro-choice as being "pro-abortion" ignores the very essence of the term itself. Pro-choice means not choosing either option for someone else, it means leaving such choices to them without our pushing them one way or the other.
RyanM
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June 21, 2012
Mr. Gesing, king of the Straw Man Argument.

I liked the part where those abortionists think it's ok to kill newborns. The parasite section made me laugh too.
rhuidean07
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June 21, 2012
Heffalump,

When I was in college I had a professor who always said that in any disagreemet.

" Whoever uses the your rude and I don't like your tone" argument immediately lost the debate.

If you disageee with my argument or rationale and provide facts to show me I am wrong then I will gladly listen and adjust.

But until you can wrestle up some facts I suggest you grow a thicker skin.

You get the right-wingers to stop attacking women’s reproductive choices and I will stop castigating them for it.

Good luck with that.

Rhuidean

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